How To Outgrow Porn Through IFS (with Patrick Cagle)

Have you ever felt curious or confused about IFS (Internal Family Systems) and how it can help you outgrow porn? Patrick Cagle offers the perfect introduction: the 3 types of parts within you, the 9 Cs of your authentic self, and the highly practical 6 Fs to connect with a part of you that feels activated, triggered, or sexually tempted.

Patrick Cagle is an IFS Level 2–trained therapist, a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) candidate, and a Pastoral Sex Addiction Professional (PSAP). Based in Alabama, he serves as an associate-level counselor devoted to helping individuals find freedom from unwanted sexual behaviors and supporting partners healing from betrayal trauma.

With compassion, clarity, and a deep respect for each client’s inner world, Patrick integrates Internal Family Systems (IFS) to uncover and heal the underlying wounds that drive addiction. His approach helps clients move beyond shame, restore connection with their authentic self, and experience lasting recovery and transformation.

Connect with Patrick at (334) 602-4112.

Check out Patrick's Psychology Today Profile here.

Join Patrick's drop-in discussion group: "Men's Internal Family Systems & Sexual Integrity" on Tuesdays at 10:00 AM Pacific Time here.

Mentioned in this episode:

• The 9 C's of IFS (credit to Cece Sykes)
• The 6 F's of IFS by Dr. Richard Schwartz
• The SIBAM Model by Dr. Peter Levine 

Take the Husband Material Journey...

• Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube
• Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community
• Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn
• Step 4: Try the all-in-one program: Husband Material Academy

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

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Welcome And The Goal Of Freedom

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart, and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa, and I'm here to show you how. Let's go. Today, my good friend Patrick Cagle, an IFS expert, is going to help us understand what IFS is, why it's so helpful for men outgrowing porn and any kind of unwanted sexual behavior or addiction, and how you can start to use some of these principles to get more freedom, healing, and to have an experience of choice, of being able to make a choice that aligns with who you truly are. In this episode, Patrick will share some vulnerable parts of his story. I will share some vulnerable parts of my story, and he will lead us through a wonderful IFS technique called the six F's to help you get more freedom, healing, and redemption in this area of your life. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to

Patrick's Story And What IFS Is

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Husband Material. I am absolutely thrilled to introduce you all to Patrick Cagle, who is my friend. He has been involved in some of our Husband Material healing weekends. And he is an IFS level two therapist. He's now licensed as a professional counselor, and he's a pastoral sex addiction professional like me, also training as a certified sex addiction therapist. And I think he is the best person to help us learn about how IFS relates to porn, sex, unwanted sexual behavior, and some really simple shifts that we can make toward healing. Welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, Drew. Patrick, as it relates to this topic, what is your story?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

It was my own struggle with pornography, you know, that led me on a journey of healing. And ultimately led me to husband material to connect with you. And then as well to change careers and go back to school, get lots of training, really fell in love with IFS and that process and how it relates to healing.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

So for anybody who is new to IFS, could you give a recap of what it is?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, absolutely. So IFS is internal family systems. And it's simply the idea we're one person with many parts. At our core, from a Christian perspective, I believe that the self, the authentic self, is just the us that's made in God's image. For those that that doesn't resonate with, it's just an authentic self. It's bigger than the collection of our parts. When we live out of that self, and again, that self that's made in God's image, we have any one or more of these qualities. We're curious, we're compassionate, we're creative, we have courage, we're connected, we're calm, we have clarity, we have confidence. And this is the ninth C that C sites adds and it's choice. And so we have those standard eight C's that you'll see everywhere in IFS. A lot of people may be familiar with, but that ninth C of choice, I think, is so important.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Especially when we're talking about porn and unwanted sexual behavior, where sometimes I feel like I don't have a choice to go back or not. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

You

Managers Firefighters And The Shame Cycle

SPEAKER_00 3:27

know, on this side of heaven, we get to live out of these qualities sometimes, not nearly as much as we want. Starting early in life, we experience wounds, exiles. These parts of us just absorb what's in the environment. Sometimes it's messages that we're told, sometimes it's just messages we pick up on. For me, one of mine had always been, I'll just never be good enough. And parts protect from feeling that pain. There's the managers, the proactive parts. These parts are future-oriented and they step in. So if there's something that triggers that wound of mine, I'll never be good enough. Parts step in to help me from feeling that. One of those is a perfectionist. I figured out a go-do, go do it perfectly. What's next? These parts are the parts we show, we want to show our neighbors and co-workers. The studious. I've got it all figured out. I can take it all on myself. I can do it all. And man, that's exhausting. So there's another part that comes in to balance the system and give us rest. We often call them firefighters, but these are soothers, distractors, pornography, compulsive pornography use, other forms of sexually acting outfit in this category. As well as substances, just dissociation, gaming, a Netflix binge. These parts bring our system rest. They have positive intent, but they often create the very thing they're trying to prevent. So if these parts, if my perfectionist go do it, figure out part is trying to prevent me from feeling like I'm not enough, that part can never do it on its own. So a firefighter is going to come in and distract and soothe. And for a long time for me, that was acting out with pornography. And if I thought I didn't feel like I was good enough at the beginning, boy, at the end of that cycle, I really felt like I wasn't good enough.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

And IFS gives us a lens to connect with that self, that self that's made in God's image. And that's the agent of healing. And man, it's it's a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Our protectors include firefighters and managers. The managers are trying to prevent pain. The firefighters are reacting to pain. Why does this matter when it comes to actually finding freedom?

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah, so IFS is great for just getting to know parts. Yeah, there may be listeners that have tried it out there, you know, with the therapist, with, you know, possibly in other coaching groups, or just on their own by reading books. Our friend Jenna Remersman has a great one and it really introduced us to a lot of these concepts. And through those means, I really found some healing. But as I tried to get to know addictive parts, what I would find is it's a lot harder. And that's because in a system where there's addiction, where there's you know compulsive sexual behavior, there's uh polarizations. And we've got to get to know the whole system. So rather than just creating that self-to-part relationship, we've got to create a relationship with a lot of parts.

Polarization And The Fixer Agenda

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Let's talk about polarizations. That's a big word. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, so polarization simply, and I'll just highlight it this way. Say if I want to get to know the part of me that will use pornography to soothe. And I want to create that part-to-self relationship to understand how's it trying to help and what's it afraid would happen if it didn't do this, which is an important part of IFS. That's how we find out the wound it's protecting. I've got that team of managers, the critic, the judge, the perfectionist, the figure it out, that don't like this part. They want it gone. And I can't go to work directly with that firefighter that's found a way to escape and bring some rest until I also work with those managers because they want it gone and they won't unblend.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

So a polarization is when we have parts that want to get rid of each other. Exactly. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

They don't like each other.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

My purity culture part absolutely hates my sexual fantasizer part. And the sexual fantasizer part feels threatened by the purity culture part, and then they're at war.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

So that's a polarization. It's almost like two political parties that want to annihilate each other.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yep, that's exactly right. The bigger one gets, the bigger the other gets. The system's staying in balance. Even though it's polarized and stuck, they're reacting to each other. So again, we end up with extreme managers and extreme firefighters.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

So sexually speaking, this could look like doubling down on recovery and doing absolutely everything I can to get free. Meanwhile, the addicted parts of me feel even more alone and unsupported and hated.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

And they're going to retaliate.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

That's exactly right. And then that cycle's just going to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah. So you're saying this is why it's really hard to get to know parts that are polarized. This is why it's really hard to work with addiction with IFS, because you're not just dealing with one part, you're dealing with a bigger system.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

That's right. We're building trust in the self. That self that's made in God's image is the agent of healing. But, you know, when a lot of these parts get started, we're young. Our self's not online yet. Our parents are the self in our system at the time. So these parts have been doing this for a long time. Things have escalated, because again, as especially in addiction, as our sexually acting out increases, those managers respond with, now I really got to figure it out. Now I'm really feeling shame. Now I'm really feeling spiritually isolated, like I don't belong in church. So just as you described, they keep getting bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Okay. So IFS is harder, yet it's still really helpful. So how can we work with parts at war?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, it's it's just more complicated. We've got to work with them all. And one of the best ways is to work with an IFS-trained therapist who's had the training for addictions, but that's not accessible to everyone. So just recognizing, you know, anytime we connect with a part of ourselves from that place of the God image within, we're doing IFS. And we have to recognize that a lot of times there's no agenda there. We're just getting to know a part. When there's an agenda, it's often a part of us, often a manager that's trying to fix us to do it right, to do it perfectly. So we just simply recognize that part and build a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

If I'm hearing you correctly, we know that we're accessing the image of God within us and our true self when we're able to relate to all of our parts with love and compassion rather than taking sides. That's exactly right. That's hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

But it's a path forward and it it helps describe why it can be so hard. It's frustrating, I know for me personally, when I find this thing that like IFS helps so much. Let me get to know these parts that I want to change. And that's the key right there when there's that agenda. Hey, I've got to go change this. That's not coming from that self, because that self can make space for everyone. Just the way if Jesus were here, he'd welcome everyone. He'd welcome all of our parts. But that part of me that wants to fix is just a manager. And I've got to go there first. If I can build trust with my managers, with my parts that are critical, judging, perfectionistic. For me, a big one's want to figure it out. I start there and I hear their concerns and get to know what are you afraid would happen if you didn't do this? And then I offer some hope. What if you didn't have to? What if the me, the me that's made in God's image, can be the one to bring it? Well, our tired managers that just been overworking. Boy, that that sounds really good to them.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

The technical IFS term for being able to access self-energy and maybe even the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

Unblending And Building Part Relationships

SPEAKER_01 12:34

The term for that is unblending. Can you help explain what that is and show us how to do it?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah, great question. This is how we build relationships with parts. And we can do it really simply. And it's just take a moment to pause, take a deep breath, and just notice what comes up. For me, I've got that part, that perfectionistic part that really wants to explain this in a way that makes sense, to do it perfectly. And I'm simply just gonna let that part know I see it. And I'm gonna thank it for trying to help. And then I'm gonna let it know that I'm here. The me that's made in God's image, and that it doesn't have to do that. I'm gonna thank it for its intent. When I notice just a little bit of a softening. And then what else is coming up? You know, I can notice another part that's you know, got some it's kind of critical. It's saying, Well, yeah, I see you step back, but you know, you're probably not explaining things clearly. So I just do the same thing with that part. And it's just this building relationship with each part of me and letting them know I'm here. Honor their tent. And then maybe asking, what do they need to feel just a little less activated in this moment? And it's a relationship. I'm building a relationship with parts of me. Parts of me that usually started for me, they started doing these jobs early. You know, when I was in elementary school, a lot of these parts. And I'm just building that relationship, and they don't know me. They don't know the me that's made in God's image. So just like building a relationship with anyone, we're just consistent, we just show up.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

So we can do this with our perfectionist parts or our inner critic parts, and we can also do it with the part of me that wants to distract myself right now. Yeah. Or avoid or escape feeling like I'm not doing this podcast well enough.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

I feel that softening too. I feel a space, like a bigger capacity to hold these things.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, and that's exactly right. I I try to do it throughout the day. It just helps me be aware. There's nothing wrong with these parts. These parts are trying to help. And when I say parts, it's important to remember we're talking about parts that have had to cast in the role of stepping into an extreme role to protect. We never get rid of parts. We don't want to. We get in a relationship with them. And, you know, most of these parts help. You know, my Go figured out due parts are what get me through the day. They got me through grad school. I'm thankful for them. It's when there's not choice, when these parts feel like they have to because they're working hard to protect me, that they ultimately create the very thing they're trying to prevent.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

I can see how that element of choice is so important.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yes, C Sykes adds that in in just such a beautiful way. I'm I'm glad she's contributed that to the IFS community because it's so helpful.

Renaming Parts And Transforming Shame

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Patrick, one of my favorite IFS insights that I learned from you was the option to rename a part of me.

unknown 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Like a redemptive renaming, so that a part of me that maybe historically I've hated, or I've thought, gosh, why do I always have to have this problem or this weakness and really cursing myself, cursing my tendencies, maybe with ADHD or with sexual thoughts and feelings, or with some of the recurring struggles that come up for me. It has been so cool to give these parts a new name. Can you say more about that?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Appreciate you sharing that. You know, when we get in a relationship with parts, we'll name them sometimes for what they're doing, the extreme role they're in. But we recognize they have positive intent. And who wants to be named by the extreme role you've been stepped into? You know, as I think about my parts, you know, the part of me that used to go to pornography as a way to soothe and really to get this burst of energy was just trying to help me. And as I've gotten to know it and give it a chance to say, you know, how are you trying to help me? You know, if you didn't have to do this anymore, what would you rather be doing? And I call that part my energizer. You know, it's a really helpful part when it can help me when there's a big task to do, and it doesn't have to take this extreme role to protect me anymore. It's the part of me that can dig in. Hey, gotta have this paper done by tomorrow. All right, let's go. And it's just a great way to honor it. And there's a very biblical nature to renaming.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yes, right, like Abram to Abraham, Saul to Paul, Simon to Peter. It's part of how God redeems our stories. Yeah. It's like I'm gonna give you a new name. And maybe for some of us, our exiles can be renamed. Like the part of me that has felt unwanted can be desired.

unknown 18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Part of me that's felt alone could be renamed You Belong.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah, that's exactly right. And ultimately, when we bring healing to the exiles, that changes our system. The parts that are in polarization that are working so hard to protect us from feeling that pain no longer have to do that when we go and bring healing to those exiles.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

And then they're freed up to do what they were intended to, what they'd rather be doing.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

As I think about my story and the parts work that I've done, one of the most interesting and revealing insights for me has been around fantasies that I've had. I think there's a part of me that wants to be vulnerable right now, and it also wants me to know that it doesn't want to be used by me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

That's so valid, isn't it? Let it know you hear it.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, I hear that.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

And let it know it doesn't have to know the answer, that it can trust the you that's talking to me right now to provide the right amount of protection.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I'm checking in with this part because I really want to open up about something vulnerable, and I also don't want to objectify myself.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

It's been a discernment journey for me over the last couple of years to be extremely open about my sexual story, and yet also to realize I need to have boundaries around that too. Yeah. Okay, I think I'm ready to share. One of the themes of my sexual fantasies has been humiliation, being aroused by somebody who is experiencing shame. And in some of my fantasies, I have taken on the role of the rescuer or the person who is coming in to take away this person's shame and to say, well, even though you are ashamed of yourself, I see your beauty, I love you, I want to be with you. And that firefighter of finding sexual stimulation from that is not a bad part of me. And in fact, it relates to something really good within me, which is the desire to free people from their shame. That's a huge part of why husband material exists. I think it's part of my strength of seeing beauty where there has been shame. And so I've renamed that fantasizer who finds arousal and humiliation my shame breaker. Underneath this villain within me, there's a hero. And That feels really good to say out loud. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Thanks, Patrick. And it relates to that exile within me who has felt humiliated and ashamed over and over and over again and who needed to be rescued. And that's part of why I have this passion to join people in the places where they're most ashamed.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, I love that. That highlights it so well of how when we get in relationship with parts, that self-depart connection, and these parts get to experience the version of us made in God's image, that's where healing comes from.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

And my managers who might be concerned about allowing that part to exist can relax because it's been desexualized.

unknown 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And that's not to say that I'm never going to experience those fantasies again. But it is to say that I can now have a relationship with that part of me and meet the deeper desires instead of just giving into the arousal.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, that's exactly right. And those managers that may have concerns about it, just simply asking them to, hey, notice me. I'm asking you to trust me, the meat that's made in God's image. You don't have to do this for me. I appreciate your effort, but I'm here. And we're doing this together.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

So, Patrick,

Handling Triggers With All Parts Welcome

SPEAKER_01 23:32

when you find yourself triggered, or when your clients find themselves triggered by a really strong firefighter who wants to go back to porn, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

First thing I do internally, and this is an important part of being a helper, is I check in with my parts. Because I've got a part that wants to rescue you. I see a client who's just hurting. And boy, I don't want him to feel that pain anymore. But that part of me can't do it. So I notice it and I ask that part to trust me. Because the me made in God's image needs to be there. So I thank that part and I ask it to give me just a little space. I imagine asking that part to sit right next to me because we're going to do this together. And I show up for them to help them get to know their parts. And one of the things that's helpful, you know, when there's addiction and there's a polarization is we invite all the parts that have concerns to come to the table. Or, you know, for in my story, my parts really like this fire pit. We show up and we hear from everyone that's got concerns. I let them know I'm here, the me that's made in God's image, and that they aren't alone anymore.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

That's so beautiful. I love that exercise. It's something that I got to experience when I was receiving IFS counseling, and it's something I've facilitated many times. Having that table where all parts are welcome.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

And there might be a part who's hiding under the table or sitting off in a corner because they don't feel like they deserve to be at the table.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

That's exactly right. And when we invite all the parts that are there, we get to know the exiles they're protecting. And when they trust us enough to go heal the pain of the exile, to redeem that exile, the message that's that it's carrying, then that is where healing comes from. And it frees up these parts to go do what they're intended to.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Sometimes in IFS, I've had this question about where does healing really come from? Because it seems like Jesus is the great healer, the great physician. And also there's this power in our core self to heal too. How do you make sense of that?

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, it's a great question. So for me, I believe that we're made in God's image. It says that in Genesis. And that there is a version of God in me since I'm made in God's image. And that's who does the healing, the self. And I would say to folks that that doesn't resonate with, you know, just to trust in something bigger. People see it in a lot of different ways. And again, I see it through a Christian lens. But what I love about IFS is it's a modality that really meets us where we are. It is something bigger than us.

The Six F's For Self Leadership

SPEAKER_01 26:40

There is an IFS technique called the six F's that I found to be very helpful. And you don't need to be IFS trained to use these simple steps. Could you walk us through them?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the six F's. First, we find. And we do that by just kind of scanning our body. And Drew, I invite you to do this along. You know, just kind of check in, see if there's anything you notice in your body. It could be tension, it could be just a sensation in your stomach. Sometimes I'll notice the tension here in my head. And if you come across something, just notice it. Focus your attention on it. And then you can ask yourself if that part, if that tension, if that sensation had words, what would it say? I love that question. And then we're gonna we want to know how we feel towards this part. How do we feel towards? And if it's one of those nine C's, the eight C's plus choice, then we're in relationship with that part from that self, from that version of us made in God's image. If it's anything else, it's just another part of us, and we can welcome that part. Or ask that part to give us a little space to get to know this one. And that's where we talk about that polarization is we might have found something in us, say my tension in my shoulders, and I may want to get to know that, and there may be another part that doesn't want me to get to know that at all. Because maybe it's a part that it's polarized with. So if we get to that step of feel towards, and I don't like it, I want it gone. Well, that's just a trailhead. I know there's a part that doesn't like that part. And if we feel say I feel curious about getting to know that tension in my shoulders, well then we move to that next step of friending. What do you do for me? How long have you been doing this job? Do you like this job? What are you afraid would happen if you didn't do this job? And then we go to flesh out, we really get to know this part. We start trying to build a relationship, a self-depart relationship with that part. We let it, you know, we're we're communicating with it in that interacting. And then we want to know its fear. What is it afraid would happen if it didn't do this job? So say my perfectionistic part. If I've gone through those steps and found out, you know, when it started doing this job, if it likes that job, what else would it rather do if it didn't have to work so hard doing that? For me, that part would just like to help me make sure it's done well. It's really good at that. But if it has to do that job, that pressure usually causes it to create the very thing it's afraid would happen. My perfectionistic part can help me do something so well I'd never actually get it done. And when I ask it, what are you afraid would happen if you didn't do this? The answer I got with that part was I'd feel like I'm not good enough. That old wound, that exile that that part protects. As I brought healing to that part, it knows it doesn't have to do the learning.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Amen. Thank you so much for leading us through that.

unknown 30:33

Yeah.

Befriending Questions And Trauma Integration

SPEAKER_01 30:35

The six F's were a big part of the inspiration for a tool in my book called the Ten Befriending Questions. Because when we ask these questions, it opens up so much that we maybe didn't even know was there. Could you say more about that? When we have these parts of us that keep wanting to go back to porn or carry wounds or have a lot of shame, they're often fragmented. And that's a fancy way of saying that they're disconnected and they're split up. So one of the great ways to kind of help piece together a full picture of this part of me is to ask some of these questions, and then I can have a better relationship with it. There's a framework from Peter Levine and his approach to healing trauma called somatic experiencing that I think he calls SIBAM, S-I-B-A-M, and that stands for sensation, image, behavior, affect, or emotion, and meaning. And basically what he's saying is that when you've got a part of you that's just a fragment, for example, just the thought, I'll never be good enough. So that's that's a little fragment. It's just words. But there's more to that. Images, feelings in my body, maybe memories, emotions that go with it. And when we ask some of these questions and use Peter Levine's framework or Richard Schwartz's IFS, it's like it gets fuller. And I can really work with it and I can really begin to heal more when it's not just words in my head, it's got emotions and images and memories and all these things attached to it. And I'm not saying you need to have all those things, but I am saying that like when we discover a part of me, like this shame that sticks to me like super glue, and I just can't ever seem to get space from it. Well, maybe instead of just having the emotion, asking some of these questions and befriending can help me to really see it more clearly, like, oh, this shame came from somewhere, and maybe it has an age. And maybe it's a little boy, or maybe it's a burden that was passed down to me from my parents and their shame. These are just some examples of what happens when we start to ask these questions, and it's like, wow, there's so much more than we thought.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Thanks for describing that. Absolutely. And it really highlights where we can come into polarizations because think about the external world. If we're telling someone, hey, I'm doing this internal work, I'm trying to get to know more about this story. We might come across well-meaning people who just say, hey, that doesn't matter. You got this problem, focus on this problem. Hey, the past is the past. We can have parts that say, hey, that doesn't matter. I don't have time for that right now. But we move towards that very part that carries that message. Hey, what are you afraid would happen if I got to know this? And what we'll find is often these parts are protecting the very same wounds, the very same exiles.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah. That was mind-blowing for me to realize that my managers and firefighters actually had the same mission.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yeah. And our friend Jenna Remersma, you know, has this notion that we move towards. We move towards with curiosity. And when we do that, we can get to know that part of us.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

And that's what Jesus did.

unknown 34:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Especially whenever he encountered somebody who clearly had a sexual story, very obvious sin and shame. He would move toward them. He wouldn't move against them. He wouldn't move away. He would come close. Yeah. With curiosity and compassion. Thank you for helping us to do that today.

unknown 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Love it. Patrick,

Faith Takeaways And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 35:07

what is your favorite thing about this work?

SPEAKER_00 35:09

This work, I feel like, helps me connect with God. It helps me, you know, I've I've got parts that have really tried to do church right that want to, you know, well-meaning parts. You know, they've had a God experience and they want me to go do that. And they tell me I've got to, I've got to get it right. I got to show up perfectly. I need to read the Bible more if I want that relationship. And actually, I'm made in God's image, and I can connect with that more and really love my parts the way Jesus loves me. It's just as I am. Yes. That's what this is all about. An early part of my recovery, I ran across your podcast. Yeah, it really changed my paradigm to know that just as I am, I'm a beloved son of God with whom he's well pleased. Not because he has to, because he chooses to.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Amen. Never gets old, does it? No. Well, Patrick, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. You're welcome. And guys, if you want to connect with Patrick, you can go down to the link in the show notes to his Psychology Today profile, and you can also learn more about his free IFS group for men as well. Congrats again on getting licensed as a counselor. And so glad that more people are getting to know you through this episode. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. And gentlemen, invite you to receive this both for yourself and also for the parts of you that may not believe it or feel it. Always remember you are God's beloved son, and you, he is well pleased.